1:57. One of my fav scenes from this masterpiece.\"How beautiful are your feet in sandals, O prince's daughter.\" I used to read the Bible every night. Max always slept with the women that Noodles had had first. Even though Leone had an artful treatment of it, is it ever truly justified in a film? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. And i used to think about you. once upon a time in america deborah car scene Heavily cut by the Ladd Company against Leone's wishes, the film's story was rearranged in chronological order, which had the effect of making it even more difficult to follow. Copyright infringement not intended.No copyright infringement is intended. Leone can pull the rug out from everything with a last minute reveal. Weird stuff. The first time, Deborah catches David "Noodles" Aaronson spying on her and recites it to him; and the second time, David "Noodles" Aaronson recites it to Deborah while they are on the beach. Unrelated: they obviously spent a lot of money to make a 4hr movie but they can't use realistic blood when someone gets beat up or shot? I didn't pick up that she knew of the robbery beforehand, that's important information. But to this day the misogyny remains indigestible. Goals Try to win Deborah's affection and love. The other rape scene is not really related to this scene, and it's just sort of a reminder of the depravity of the gang life. In addition to that Max had been in competition for Noodles every score and position since the get go, from scores, sloppy seconds, cockblocking his Deborah. Wouldn't concatenating the result of two different hashing algorithms defeat all collisions. I took your money. That question was secondary to the main point of my post; I wanted to let anyone who thought that rape is something that shouldn't ever be put in film to make that argument, such as some feminist perspective I was missing. The core of the story here is about relationships over time, not about the violence. Culture Editor Tony Sokol is a writer, playwright and musician. The camera does not look away, and the scene lingers with terrifying ferocity and traumatic intimacy. Help me understand the context behind the "It's okay to be white" question in a recent Rasmussen Poll, and what if anything might these results show? He got by. And Deborah also knows that Noodles puts friendship and loyalty above anything else, above his own good and that he will always respond to Max's call ("Go on, Noodles, your mother's calling you", she mocks him). That motion picture reinvigorated the gangster film, long considered a ghetto genre, but its perspective is insulated. You expect her to cringe, to have an emotional reaction to the man who violated her. We know them too well, even as they do such horrible things. A direct line can be drawn from the machine gun death which ends Bonnie and Clyde (1967) to the toll-booth execution of Sonny Corleone (James Caan) in The Godfather. I'd think, \"Deborah lives. Deborah doesnt agree after 1933. We're now in a different world -- a self-respecting woman, who has chosen a career over her lover, rejects his proposal. 21 comments. Wouldn't concatenating the result of two different hashing algorithms defeat all collisions? Is email scraping still a thing for spammers. Trigger puts away his P210. They dip their beaks in harmless vices like gambling, liquor, and prostitution. The Den of Geek quarterly magazine is packed with exclusive features, interviews, previews and deep dives into geek culture. You're supposed to know that already. There are so many details that could be understood as just part of the story told chronologically in a straight forward manner. chefs choice meat slicer 610 replacement parts How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? Told largely in flashback, the film takes. Patsy puts away his P210 during the diamond heist. And yet, Max is not happy. That's all well and good, but it doesn't really seem to adress the actual question why Deborah would engage with Max. Why do we kill some animals but not others? Every night I used to think about you. That's why she ends up being with him to the extent of even protecting the crimes he did. There's only the people he knows at the time he is smoking the opium. I don't think there is a real answer in terms of the character, and I suppose we could imagine many scenarios since the "romance" occurred entirely offscreen. I didn't think about it that way. Max has gone as low as he could go. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. By sheer virtue of being outside of Hollywood, Leone transcends traditional boundaries. Yet I think she had already seen (and known) Max back in the 30s. There where times I couldn't stand it anymore. The blackmail scheme, which involves swapping infants, plays like an outtake from a Three Stooges movie, something Coppola would never dare for The Godfather. Why did Max attack him? The scene is a prelude to the second - I think it's arguable that Noodles sees how she reacts, assumes this is just "how women work" and then applies that learning to Deborah, with vile results. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Is email scraping still a thing for spammers. Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in America is as epic as The Godfather, gorier than Goodfellas, and as streetwise as Mean Streets. Whereas The Godfather moved in a linear fashion, Once Upon a Time in America has time for flashbacks, and flashbacks within flashbacks, and detours that careen between the violent and the quiet. Max had the money she needed to live the lifestyle she wanted. Hed planned this all along. In the back of the diner, amongst "the brooms and the empties" where she usually practices her dancing, she reads him the "Song of Songs" and reveals her true feelings for him, but warning him at the same time, while also mocking him, that they could never be together as long as Noodles remains a "two-bit punk" a street gangster ("what a shame"): Deborah has understood that in order to be with Noodles she would be bound to give up her dreams of fame and glory, and she just won't do that, as she clearly explains to Noodles few years later when they are dining in the exclusive restaurant by the sea (the following quote is circa at 2:15 in the subsequent clip) : Deborah: Noodles you're the only person that I have ever Deborah: that I ever cared about. Movies & TV Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for movie and TV enthusiasts. However, I did show this movie recently to my parentsand they just didn't think anything of it even when I pointed out the moments to watch. Its sequel, The Godfather, Part II, often follows it in the pantheon of classic cinema, some critics even believe it is the better film. Leone offers no such restraint. The Corleones. R 1984 251 minutes Save Rate movie Parents say age 15+ Based on 10 reviews Kids say age 14+ Based on 14 reviews Watch or buy Common Sense is a nonprofit organization. He put his gun away and eked out a quiet life. 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Deborah has dreams and ambitions, nowadays she will be called a Social Climber and that's clearly something that make her closer to Max: a sharp, bright, dominant but pertubated personality. Trying to win Deborah's affection. Am I being scammed after paying almost $10,000 to a tree company not being able to withdraw my profit without paying a fee. The entire "old age" segment of the film has an eerie dreamlike quality, and I'm not sure it is supposed to seem realistic. A third possibility I read in another article, which believed Deborah's motivations in the movie were always suspect: As Max increasingly assimilates the values of capitalism however, his He learns he cant have it and eat it. That's interesting. After a lavish dinner date, Deborah again rebuffs Noodles, saying she is going to Hollywood to become an actress. In the end Deborah tells him Bailey was a starving immigrant who married a very wealthy woman who died in childbirth. He can aim a camera at De Niros spoon in a coffee cup for three minutes and never lose the audiences rapt attention. The "Look at yourself Noodles" scene is to me highly important, remember Noodles going and looking at himself in the mirror right after Deborah's humiliating comment. Noodles loves both Deborah and Max, but he feels more of a sense of loyalty to Max and this is why he always chooses to stand by Max, even at the expense of Deborah. Noodles views himself as loyal and the better man so he refuses to even call him Max let alone kill him. What factors changed the Ukrainians' belief in the possibility of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022? And then years later he gets together with the love of Noddles' life, Deborah, who is also one of Noodles rape victims, but more of that later. After watching a Sopranos episode with a too-much, look-away rape scene that almost ruined the series for me, I became uncomfortable with any work of media where rape is portrayed. There's a torture scene in this film in the opening scene, that did not quite have the same effect as the rape scenes. What are some tools or methods I can purchase to trace a water leak? In response to the first post, they're Jewish not Italian and if you were paying attention, after the lineup where she's supposed to pick out her rapist she kisses Noodles then gets a really sad look on her face. This new restoration, which premiered in 2012, lumbers its way to 251 minutes. Everything right before the old man hands him a drink, that's the end of the movie - and everything after is an opium dream. Oh I know, maybe I just phrased it poorly. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? She is narcissistic and the love for Mr. Bailey is a narcissistic one. Avengers (and every MCU movie so far) assemble! Max would have taken the money, hooked up with the unions, gotten rich, gone into politics, gotten old and eventually into trouble. This might sound a bit creepy, as if I'm suggesting that the character was "asking for it," but I think the first scene heavily implied that Carol (the girl from the first rape scene) has some sort of masochistic / submissive tendency. Don't go back to that door and open it, rather go out the other way through the other exit door, otherwise you'll be transformed into a statue of salt. Once Upon a Time in America whacked the gangster film, and tossed its living corpse into the compactor of a passing garbage truck. How did StorageTek STC 4305 use backing HDDs? But the 35-year gap between the slaughter of Noodles crew and the introduction of Secretary Bailey is almost unfathomable. 50. He chooses a treat over sex. In Once Upon a Time, Tate goes to a matinee screening where she points to her picture on the poster as she asks the box office attendee if she's allowed free admission because she's in the. Is that okay with you? Sometimes rape is used in a scene because the director,or creators of the movie were just plain lazy,and wanted to turn off the audience with a disturbing rape scene.I didn't see anything redeeming of the characters after the rape scene in the car,not even with the driver who could've/should've stopped the car in the beginning of the assault,not at the end.Maybe he was scared,or he didn't care,but that's a hero, when your scared to do it, "I don't even know what all that hyper masculine ting is brev, shout out to the LGBT community brev". I don't get this take at all. The cut first screened at Cannes ran to 269 minutes. The music becomes part of the action in Once Upon a Time in America. It's all a dreamso there's no real answer. Also, there seems to be some confusion about my "Italian hypermasculinity" comment -- the writer/director of this film is Italian filmmaker Sergio Leone. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Listen to trailer music, OST, original score, and the full list of popular songs in the film. [12] Interior scenes were mostly filmed at the Cinecitt Studios in Rome. The film certainly suggests a more open interpretation, and throughout the film portrays Deborah in a fairly unflattering light, while you are clearly meant to like Noodles, even if he is an anti-hero, up until that scene. But there's an early montage in Sergio Leone's 1984 gangster epic that's really all you need. Why did Deborah start a relationship with Bailey? And possessing Deborah, Noodles life-long romantic ideal, would be Maxs crowning achievement. Life can be really really shitty. Mr Bailey So it has to be a pipe dream and the movie ends in the opium den. But I have to admit, I was surprised with Leone's portrayal of it in Once Upon a Time in America. why? All Max did was change his name not his appearance. Music is paramount in both Leones and Coppolas films. Once Upon a Time in America (C'era una Volta in America, 1984) was the last film that Sergio Leone directed and also his most monumental achievement. Today they ask us to get rid of Joe. The gangs rise ends with the liquor delivery massacre. The Godfather Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone Proves a Little Less is Infinitely More, Mob Antipasta: Best Gangster Movie Food Scenes, Luther: The Fallen Sun Review Bigger Isnt Always Better, Cocaine Bear Review: Pure Concept Gets Diluted, Netflix's Re/Member Is a Time Loop to Forget, Redeeming The Legacy Of The Godfather Part III, The Real Goodfellas: Gangsters That Inspired the Martin Scorsese Film, Why Harvey Keitel's Lansky Looks for Goodness in Bad Men, Shazam! Every time I read it I find new ideas, but mostly, it reinforces to me, time and again, that 'with, about, in, and through' the arts is the best, most meaningful way to approach teaching and learning." Bernadette Chilcote, Teacher, Charleston, SC "Claudia Cornett's approach to arts and literacy really resonates with teachers. It says something about changing times that, of the two rapes (count them), in Leone's chaotic Once Upon a Time in America, it was the one treated more seriously and explicitly Robert De Niro's assault on Elizabeth McGovern that attracted smatterings of unease on the film's release in 1984. First, consider Maxs motivation in snagging Deborah. I really like your perspective of aristocrat-versus-street conflict, but I have to disagree that the rape scenes were unrelated. New York City, New York When he comes to, he learns that his friends have all died in a shootout with the cops. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I can't believe you just wrote all that out and what it meant to the movie and you end with is it justified? Specifically, what you are seeing before your eyes doesn't make sense. When Max and Noodles, and the gang defuse the situation, rather than ignite it, it is a lesson in the dangerous balance of suspense. Just want to point out that the main characters in this movie were Jewish. Should we not put killing on the screen? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Find all 15 songs in Once Upon a Time in America Soundtrack, with scene descriptions. She was the hope of escape for Noodles, she was only important in terms of what she symbolized for him. Why did the Soviets not shoot down US spy satellites during the Cold War? The studios first choice was Sergio Leone, but he was getting ready to make his own gangster epic, Once Upon a Time in America. So now we have Noodles in the back of a Limo with the pure and innocent Deborah, and he is thinking that she is 'asking for it' as well..and so he rapes her in the most brutal and horrific fashion. use of prostitution changes. Morricones accompaniment to Once Upon a Time in America is as representational as Nino Rotas soundtrack in The Godfather. I of course never thought that rape would be treated as if it wasn't wrong, just a minor element of the story. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? Was Galileo expecting to see so many stars? Just as Deborah is willing to give up the one person shes ever loved to pursue her dreams of stardom, so Max is willing to sacrifice his boyhood friends to facilitate his own ascendancy. . Noodles then does what young men in coming-of-age movies have done since Cooley High: Something really stupid. That's why I thought it was important enough to write down in this post. BestSoundtracksEver. But more importantly, Max, unlike Noodles, is the kind of man Deborah would respect. Noodles is devastated, crushed. The sequence is dominated by the sound of a ringing phone. During the rape scene she protests, but what she says is cliched, "oh no, I don't want this at all, oh my, how terrible" etc. Its sweeter than the cannoli Clemenza (Richard Castellano) took from the car, or the cake Nazorine (Vito Scotti) made for the wedding of Don Vitos daughter. Robert Evans, head of production at Paramount in the early 1970s, wanted The Godfather to be directed by an Italian American. But while I could understand that Max maybe above all other reasons just wanted to "steal" Deborah from Noodles out of his anger over his betrayal, I wonder what drove Deborah to him, given that she never had a high opinion about Noodles' way of life and especially his friend Max. At the conc Continue Reading 22 Sponsored by Gundry MD If you're going to say that it is never justified to put rape on the screen, it's like denying that it ever happens. If this had been the only rape scene in the film, then I'd probably assume that Leone was, like many other directors of his time, under the pretty standard assumption that most women don't mind a bit of rape and the protests they give are all just slight attempts to seem composed and dignified. Wicked City was initially canceled after just 3 episodes, but later, the remaining episodes were aired on Hulu. The gangs shared secret bankroll was empty when he tried to retrieve it as the last surviving member. The Godfather is told from the vantage point of one of the heads of the five established crime families; organized crime is as insular as the Corleone mall on Long Beach. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Once Upon a Time in America ups the ante though. I thought it was more about how he didn't want her to want him anymore, and he did that so she wouldn't mess with a 'street rat' anymore. Clash between mismath's \C and babel with russian, Dealing with hard questions during a software developer interview. We could, perhaps, have done without the cheesy allusions to Yesterday (as clumsy as the "Sean, Sean, Sean" refrain in Morricone's score for Duck, You Sucker), but this might still be the composer's most beautiful soundtrack. Once Upon a Time in America is a frontier film. Though a scene like this is always dark and uncomfortable, Leone uses rape as an indispensable plot point. Deborah claims not to know much about Bailey, but Noodles already knows they have lived together for years. Throughout the film, Max is driven to sexually possess the women Noodles has already had. In his mind there's not a huge world with many characters and unlimited possibilities. She is aware of the robbery ahead of time, and during it she actively asks Noodles to hit her and "make it count" or words to that effect. When I think of this movie or any other, I think of the filmmaker's perspective, not the characters' alone. Also Max was a known figure. Like many specific scenes in Once Upon a Time in America, Conways incendiary introduction wouldve worked in any era. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. It kills any vestige of romance the gangster archetype has in film. But your perspective really does explain why the second rape happens -- he is, in fact, "that kind of guy," and was labeled as such in the date, like you said. An indulgence the Corleones could never enjoy. However, I also don't like the idea of her being simply attracted to money, as I hoped for better from her character. Firstly, it's possible that after Noodles rape of her, she simply lost respect for herself and her body and simply decided that material riches were all she needed. Unfortunately, the reasons are never really explained. E-Book Overview Managerial Communication, 5e by Geraldine Hynes focuses on skills and strategies that managers need in today's workplace. But he discovers that Deborah is most certainly not like Carol, or the young prostitute Peggy, Deborah is definitely NOT ejoying what is happening, Deborah is certainly screaming, but not with pleasure. Now why dont you shoot? This final betrayal, and Noodles inert revenge, take Once Upon a Time In America into almost unexplored cinematic depths. In the second rape scene the driver is NOT a hero! How can I change a sentence based upon input to a command? Thank you Once Upon a Time in America whacked the gangster film, and tossed its living corpse into the compactor of a passing garbage truck. Many film critics gave two separate reviews for the film. If not, what other information would you like? This past fall (spring in the Southern Hemisphere) Zo released her first . ", meaning that Max wants Noodles at his side. If any copyright shareholders involved with the film or music want this video removed, please notify me and I'll remove it myself. The audience (if they are anything like me), accepts this is as plausible (after all, it is a different time, and I have little direct experience with rape victims). And it gives me a hard-on.". Has chosen a career over her lover, rejects his proposal it does n't really seem adress. Is paramount in the second rape scene the driver is not a!! Am I being scammed after paying almost $ 10,000 to a tree company not being able to withdraw my without... 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