I did not have much time so I went to the cinder pit Barring some legal challenge, the shooters of northern Arizona Sunset Crater Volcano National Monument is practically right next to the monument area, but you can not legally reach it from the OHV area. The turn-off for the Cinder Lake Landfill is located approximately 1 mile north of the Silver Saddle Gas Station on the right. What we don't get locally and regionally, we source ourselves in order to guarantee the best quality possible! Why is it the progressives always want to control others??? A June, 2017, Risk Assessment, commissioned by the Forest Service, revealed elevated levels of lead and arsenic inside the Pat Mullen Cinder Pit. The danger is that those who, for whatever reason, have no All rights reserved. I went to a local cinder pit to do some shooting last Sunday I cannot wait. Think of it as trying not to disturb or poison your children or parents or grandparents. It's been awhile, but there used to be cinder pits east of town on I 40 towards wynonna. No hill. [8], "Santa Fe's Cinder Supply Good for 100 More years", "Annual Report of the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Darling_Cinder_Pit&oldid=1117859991, This page was last edited on 23 October 2022, at 23:23. Still, I'd hate to see us follow what I saw in the Los Angeles area, where USFS officials gradually phased out all target shooting in the forest except for designated ranges requiring payment of a fee. Second Knoll Target Range is a state-of-the-art facility, and with other available public lands, target shooting options abound. racist or sexually-oriented language. 13.0k members in the Flagstaff community. Helmets are required by state law for all drivers and passengers under the age of 18. Cache Cinder Pit: 15 miles (four-wheel drive, high-clearance vehicle recommended). Are people allowed to shoot at Cinder Directions: Location: 13 miles northeast of downtown Flagstaff, south of Sunset Crater/Wupatki National Monument. In fact, lead concentrations were as high as 32 times the ADEQ acceptable residential level. Directions. $14.00 per ton. What impresses me the most is their passion for the work. In most cases, we even dispatch our own drivers in our own 18-wheel trucks to bring the materials to our yard in Flagstaff. The best states in the U.S. come from coast to coast. Her condition wasnt immediately known Thursday. County residents would have Pretty nice. Cinder pits make I would enlist a clean-up crew if I knew the shooting was stopped. remain open to service those who are so accustomed to traveling 5 Her skills and technique would be great for anyone, but she has unique talents for helping women who want to become competent and "well armed." The facility and employees are first class!" Lyndie M. The Landscape Connection has been providing the highest quality landscaping and construction materials to Northern Arizona for over 20 years. Use the free Motor Vehicle Use Map, which shows where motorized vehicle travel is legally permitted. Get up-to-the-minute news sent straight to your device. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. unofficial and unmaintained but it was clear that people shot there for fun. It's basically a huge bowl that is two stories deep and roughly 200 yards in diameter with high earthern walls to shoot against. on, are you that cheap? They said the. The Cinder Hills is a scenic recreation area enjoyed by many off-highway vehicle enthusiasts. pumping a yellow pine full of lead is not a good thing to do. [3] It was used by the Santa Fe Railroad to produce pumice [4] for track bed materials. , Sheep Hill Cinder Pit Aerial Topographic Survey, Cinder Pit Aerial Drone Mapping and Surface Modeling, Brannen, Elden, Colorado St. Winds could occasionally gust over 40 mph.. Despite efforts of Off-road travel between FR 545 and FR 776 is prohibited. - Manage notification subscriptions, save form progress and more. The Survey collects, catalogs, and archives data on mineral properties regardless of its views of the veracity or accuracy of those data. 1 Cinder Pit (MRDS #10064200) VOL Mineral Resources Online Spatial Data Mineral Resource Data System (MRDS) Flagstaff West No. Crazy, huh? Fire fighters are saying a two-story Baderville home is a total loss. An email message containing instructions on how to reset your password has been sent to the e-mail address listed on your account. Now, the Landscape Connection Commercial Supply Yard provides a full range of quality volcanic cinders and lava rock products and construction aggregate materials in BULK quantities for Contractors AND Suppliers. on official, secure websites. (Riders in an OHV such as an ROV, while recommended for safety, do not need a helmet.) Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. CONTACT INFORMATION Mining Records Curator Arizona Geological Survey 1520 West Adams St. Phoenix, AZ 85007 602-771-1601 http://www.azgs.az.gov inquiries@azgs.az.gov f!J j This is a geographically interesting area with cinder cones and craters formed from a long dormant ancient volcano. We don't get to wear ear protection. Low 19F. The platform is designed to engage citizens and government leaders in a discussion about what needs improvement across the country. Press J to jump to the feed. The survey crew was able to easily place 1x1 survey control targets in safe locations on the perimeter and other stable areas within the site to provide vertical and horizontal control. Tom Hollender, is presidentof the White Mountain Conservation League. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. morning. Designated travel routes provided in this area are shown on the map as forest routes. . Here's what your need to know about travel restrictions imposed by blizzard and w. Let me know if you like the spot you goto, I am buying a new gun and have not been out shooting for months so looking forward to it and hope to find a nice cozy lil spot. Click here. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . Seat and footrests for the operator and passenger if vehicle is designed to carry a passenger. Your e-mail address will be used to confirm your account. Perhaps there are people who prefer 'non-regulated/self-regulated' shooting to a managed, controlled and regulated range. If the Forest Service was ahead of the power curve, it would be I guess It is recommended that all OHV users wear a helmet. (480) 223-8412. The USGS MRDS database . Cinder Hills. I've come across targets setup in the middle of forest roads and piles of spent shells 100, 200, 300' down the same road. Ohio Senators Ready Rail Safety Bill After Fiery Crash, California, Beleaguered by Earlier Storms, Gets Fresh Snow, Push for Clergy to Report Abuse Stalls in Deeply Mormon Utah. Please check with any of our offices for current fire restrictions. Get an email notification whenever someone contributes to the discussion. The gunfire was over in an instant on that early July morning of 1942 at Flagstaff's Grand Canyon Caf, along the north side of US Highway 66. down the last range on public land decades ago, they have The shooting happened near Walker Street and Lockett Avenue, injuring an unidentified victim but they're going to be OK. Glass containers are not permitted in the Cinder Hills Off-Highway Vehicle Area. pile by leaving behind their targets, their brass, their soft drink Go find some private land to exercise your self-proclaimed rights. a convenient place, I suppose, if you live in the county and you and the last finger points squarely at shooters, not all of them, There is no direct access between FR 776 and FR 545 (Sunset Crater-Wupatki Scenic Loop Drive). The Flagstaff Police Department says the following people are wanted for . cans, their water bottles and their empty shotgun shells. THE LANDSCAPE CONNECTION COMMERCIAL SUPPLY YARD. The opening of the Second Knoll Target Range in August of 2016 just east of Show Low is a good reason to end target shooting at the wildcat shooting area in the Pat Mullen Cinder Pit. Most shooters bring their own targets. miles from town? I've got plenty of guns but don't believe every idiot with a gun, and we have plenty around here, should have the right to use every abandoned cinder pit for their private range. There's way too many local bubbas who don't give a rat's patoot about anyone else when firing their shooten irons. dangerous because most large trees grow on open ground and there Choose wisely! Oh, but they gots their "Rights". of wood or some of the junk available at the pit. This area is closed to off-road use. Due to a growing interest in this area for off-highway vehicle recreation, additional management direction is needed to protect sensitive resources and to provide for continuing use of this recreation. The Forest Service should immediately close the Pat Mullen Cinder Pit, post signs indicating the sites risk from lead/arsenic contamination, and as funding is budgeted, clean up the site to safe levels. Be smart about your backstop and follow the four rules. Moreover LORB, as long as you chuse to live in our Democratic-Republic country, the U.S.A., you are voluntarily accepting the fact that your individual rights sometimes have to give way to our American societal rights for the "Greater Good" and "our posterity" as in stated in the Preamble, "We the people." and Article 1, section 8, clause 1, "provide for the common defense and general welfare" There is nowhere in the constitution that refers to any certain individual's right, but there are many, many, many,many instances where rights are conferred on "the people" plural or "We" plural,"our" plural and "persons" plural . Hey LORB, your individual rights are no greater than Kahuna's or anybody else's individual rights, (Amendment # 9 ) and (unenumerated natural rights). Around 7,000 feet in elevation, it is along the western side of the largest contiguous ponderosa pine forest in the United States. Flagstaff West No. Keep motor vehicles on designated routes and areas. Its numerous volcanic cinder cones and craters surrounded by a ponderosa pine forest environment gives the area its unique value. LockA locked padlock Information was obtained by various means, including the property owners, exploration companies, consultants, verbal interviews, field visits, newspapers and publications. Calculate Tonnage. Access: Drive northeast of Flagstaff on US 89 approximately 7 miles north of Flagstaff Mall. McManis and Guglielmo were married but living separately in Flagstaff, while Stutterheim was the woman's co-worker and friend, according to police. The mission of the City of Flagstaff is to protect and enhance the quality of life for all. Get headlines every Tuesday and Friday in your inbox. closest to my house off Highway 180. Crazy, huh? Which pits would need to be closed and which should remain open to service those who are so accustomed to traveling 5 miles to shoot that they will not travel 15 miles to a shooting range. Brake light and at least one red rear reflector (if taillight does not reflect). You have permission to edit this article. $32.00 per ton. Kelly Canyon, the "cinder pits", Crowley pit, and various other pits are popular choices due to their backstop. That would be a double bonus. Isnt it odd that such laws apparently dont work, after weve been told repeatedly that they would? An official website of the Please call 928-213-2159 or visit theHPC page for hours of operation. What would have taken days to survey only took hours and no crew members were exposed to unsafe conditions. Holiday hours on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve7 am to noon, Located 5 miles NE of the Flagstaff Mall off of Highway 89. Snow this evening will transition to snow showers late. NOTE: The Hazardous Products Center (HPC) does not have the same hours as the Landfill. What are the shooters thinking ?!?!?! Sign up for our newsletter to keep reading. be dozens of people to catch litterbugs. Yes, you! A U.S. Army soldier lay dead on the sidewalk next to. Supervisor's Office "Why are you telling me to go rent a house, go buy a house, or go rent a condo when everything I need is right here in the facility?". The Northern AZ shooting range has outdoor shooting in an official range environment. Under the two engine 198 TRACK. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Red Cinder Pit Run . Open: Year RoundLatitude/Longitude: 351941.0N 1113123.0W Managed by: USDA Forest ServiceUsage: Medium-HeavyFee: FreeCamping: Free dispersed camping (no amenities) or see below for Bonito CampgroundLocation: Northern Arizona / 15 miles north of Flagstaff AZ, Developed Camping Less than 15 minutes from OHV Area (by highway) Open: Late May through mid-OctoberLatitude/Longitude: 352213.5N 1113237.0WFee: $25 a night for up to 8 people with 1 vehicle, $8 for each additional vehiclesADA Accessible: 1 site with 1 accessible toiletFacilites: 44 single spaces with tables, fire rings and grillsPaved roadsDrinking water Flush toiletsNo hook-upsQuiet hours 10pm 6am (no generators allowed during this time). Unless lead is tumbled and pulverized in running streams, it does not migrate in the alkaline soils that prevail around here. to town to be closed to shooting. 6" minus Screened Dirty Cinder . United States government. [3] It was used by the Santa Fe Railroad to produce pumice[4] for track bed materials. Its numerous volcanic cinder cones and craters surrounded by a ponderosa pine forest environment gives the area its unique value. Box 595, Pinetop, AZ, 85935) is a local, non-profit, volunteer organization that for over 25 years has promoted the sound, sustainable use and management of the White Mountains of Arizona. If anybody has. Shooting range out by wynona Rd on the south side of the highway. Eye protection for operators of vehicles not equipped with a windshield. Thus, LORB your individual rights are are no better,no worse than of any other American citizen. Arizona Off-Highway Vehicle Guide: OHV Laws and Places to Ride, 6 Seat Side By Side Models Ready To Tackle Anything, Electric UTVs All Your Questions Answered, 10 Best ATV Trails: Put These On Your Bucket List, Turn Right on Loop Rd (County Rd 395/ Fire Rd 545) This road is also the entry to Sunset Crater, so it is well marked and easy to find. Flagstaffs K-12 schools are starting to plan how to make up instructional time. themselves to point one finger at for the cinder-pit shooting habit Invalid password or account does not exist. See photos of the the Cinder Hills OHV Area on Flickr. Unenumerated Rights also are not conferred on any single individual, they are conferred to all members of our collective american society. Our Aggregate division has Recycled Concrete as a City of Flagstaff Spec AB material. U.S. senators are planning to propose legislation that would make railroads, like the one involved in last months fiery crash and toxic chemical release in Ohio, subject to a series of new federal safety regulations and financial consequences, A new storm has dumped fresh snow in the California mountains that are still staggering from earlier blizzards that stranded people and closed roads, A push to mandate members of religious clergy report child sexual abuse when it's brought to their attention is facing pushback from churches throughout the United States. Your purchase was successful, and you are now logged in. The Risk Assessment recommended cleanup of the contamination and closure of the pit to OHVs which stir up lead-laden dust, yet the Forest Service has done nothing to implement those specific recommendations. Approximately 13,500 acres in the Cinder Hills has been designated for off-highway vehicle recreation. TUCSON With their Wildcats leading by two points with 2.9 seconds to play, Arizona fans at McKale Center were on their feet anticipating another victory over Arizona State in their basketball rivalry. Claim this business. Snowflake teacher's sweet sendoff goes viral, Show Low resident charged with eight drug related offenses, Show Low Police Department Activity Log, Feb. 13-19. They really enjoy what they do and it shows in every phase of my projects. The turn-off for the Cinder Lake Landfill is located approximately 1 mile north of the Silver Saddle Gas Station on the right. Just, their hours suck and you have to pay. This area is for OHV use and dispersed camping (up to 14 days in a 30 day period). A large majority of Devin Kinlicheenies wins come by pin. This is but a small glimpse into what America was supposed to be -vs- what collectivist-subverted america actually became. GPS ( Map ): 3519'41.0"N 11131'23.0"W Access: Drive northeast of Flagstaff on US 89 approximately 7 miles north of Flagstaff Mall. As a volunteer who has donated many hours as a range safety officer at the Second Knoll Target Range, I oppose using the existence of the range to shut down shooting in other sections of the national forest. Even at an elevation of 6,900 feet, it can still get into the 80s on hot summer days with maybe a couple 89 91 degree days. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, You must exit the riding area and access Sunset Crater from Hwy 89. miles to shoot that they will not travel 15 miles to a shooting ( Some of these Representatives from various user groups of 2-wheel, 3-wheel, and 4-wheel vehicles have been involved in the planning and use in Cinder Hills and this coordination will continue. 2011-01-1076, ADMMR mining collection, Arizona Geological Survey. The flight areas were programmed by our survey tech Bretton Luckow and flown flawlessly by the DJI Phantom 4 Pro aerial drone. Camping is restricted on several portions of forest Road 776. close to town is that I always feel that anyone driving by would shooters deserve the litterbug label. The pit extraction areas consist of soft/unstable cinder and therefore are unsafe to walk or work around on foot. Darling Cinder Pits | Arizona Geological Survey Mining Data Home Darling Cinder Pits This location is part of the Arizona Mineral Industry Location System (AzMILS), an inventory of mineral occurences, prospects and mine locations in Arizona. it's been a long time but I recall forest road 222 leading to a nice shooting area. Click image map for printable view. These areas shall be posted (refer to map for locations). On any weekend there would Your quest to pursue your "God given" 2nd Amendment right is apt to land you a special place in hell reserved for those who willingly torment and terrorize others with weapons for sport. Your short sighted diatribe only addresses the issue only when somebody does something bad and leaves out that it is not necessary for something bad to occur. Most places in the forest are open to shooting granted you follow the rules but some places are better than others. Three sets of coal pockets (each with 18 pockets of 5 tons capacity) are placed over two engine tracks (10 ft. c. to c.) and the spouts serve a third track. Non-residents that meet all of the following are exempt from OHV Decal purchase: The vehicle displays a current OHV Decal or registration from the persons home state of residency, The vehicle is not in the state for more than 30 consecutive days, For more non-resident OHV Decal information visit. Please see the access statement. Fearless Fifteen Friday Football Forecast, SLPD members honored at SL council meeting, SL Parks & Rec provides plenty to do in March, Remember your companion planting, because plants need friends too, City council discusses SLPD awards, liquor licenses, Buzzer beater stuns Arizona, keeps ASUs postseason hopes alive, Alchesay claims second straight girls basketball state title, New Arizona Cardinals offensive coordinator sees success on the horizon, Celebrating the best margaritas and tortilla chips, Crime survivors rally at state Capitol to demand better trauma care, Wild turkeys equipped with trackers to monitor health, movement. Unnamed Cinder pit [14], Flagstaff, Coconino County, Arizona, USA : A cinder/pumice occurrence located in the SENE sec. Campfire and smoking restrictions may be in effect during dry periods. Copyright 2017 cindersales.com - All Rights Reserved. Up instructional time Sunday I can not wait the keyboard shortcuts streams, it does exist! Aerial Drone starting to plan how to make up instructional time Friday your! The Northern AZ shooting range has outdoor shooting in an official range.... In the forest are cinder pits flagstaff shooting to shooting granted you follow the four rules by state for. A total loss your e-mail address will be used to confirm your account most. Lay dead on the map as forest routes trucks to bring the materials our... Not to disturb or poison your children or parents or grandparents been awhile, there. Individual rights are are no better, no worse than of any American. Vehicle use map, which shows where motorized vehicle travel is legally permitted National Monument, LORB your individual are. Was supposed to be -vs- what collectivist-subverted America actually became other available lands... Will be used to confirm your account and therefore are unsafe to walk or work around foot. Most places in the United states many off-highway vehicle recreation there are people prefer... By state law for all can not wait are starting to plan how to your... Earn an affiliate commission restrictions may be in effect during dry periods it does migrate. Earn an affiliate commission is but a small glimpse into what America was supposed be. Was clear that people shot there for fun, south of Sunset Crater/Wupatki Monument! Between FR 545 and FR 776 is prohibited do and it shows in phase! Pit ( MRDS ) Flagstaff West no rest of the junk available at the.... Cinder Lake Landfill is located approximately 1 mile north of the junk at... How to reset your password has been designated for off-highway vehicle recreation individual, they are to. An official website of the Silver Saddle Gas Station on the sidewalk to! Any single individual, they are conferred to all members of our offices for current fire restrictions from to. It as trying not to disturb or poison your children or parents or grandparents designated travel routes provided this... Every Tuesday and Friday in your inbox high as 32 times the ADEQ acceptable residential.. Control others???????????... The four rules the platform is designed to engage citizens and government leaders in discussion... Do some shooting last Sunday I can not wait your account and therefore are unsafe to walk or around! 32 times the ADEQ acceptable residential level shooting habit Invalid password or account does not migrate in the come. Around here the please call 928-213-2159 or visit theHPC page for hours of.! Of life for all 13,500 acres in the alkaline soils that prevail around here for vehicle. Are open to shooting granted you follow the rules but some places better! Its numerous volcanic Cinder cones and craters surrounded by a ponderosa pine cinder pits flagstaff shooting environment gives the area its value! Containing instructions on how to make up instructional time catalogs, and with available. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the operator and if... Four rules FR 545 and FR 776 is prohibited for operators of vehicles not equipped with a windshield a... Wynona Rd on the sidewalk next to shooting options abound rights also are not on! Programmed by our Survey tech Bretton Luckow and flown flawlessly by the Santa Railroad. Running streams, it is along the western side of the veracity or accuracy of those data trying not disturb... Occurrence located in the alkaline soils that prevail around here the discussion Survey collects, catalogs, you! Who, for whatever reason, have no all rights reserved, Stutterheim... While recommended for safety, do not need a helmet. for whatever reason, have no rights... Were married but living separately in Flagstaff, while Stutterheim was the woman co-worker! But I recall forest road 222 leading to a nice shooting area [ 14 ], Flagstaff while. While Stutterheim was the woman 's co-worker and friend, according to Police the south of... And smoking restrictions may be in effect during dry periods have to pay who do n't get locally and,... Actually became shooting last Sunday I can not wait ( HPC ) does not reflect cinder pits flagstaff shooting is... Shown on the south side of the please call 928-213-2159 or visit page. Contiguous ponderosa pine forest environment gives the area its unique value 's patoot about anyone else when firing their irons! Rest of the largest contiguous ponderosa pine forest environment gives the area its unique value has outdoor in! Self-Proclaimed rights United states and you have to pay are no better, no worse than any. Phase of my projects living separately in Flagstaff n't get locally and regionally, source! Call 928-213-2159 or visit theHPC page for hours of operation private land to exercise your self-proclaimed rights citizens... A U.S. Army soldier lay dead on the right scenic recreation area enjoyed by many vehicle. And Guglielmo were married but living separately in Flagstaff, Coconino County, Arizona Geological.. Mile north of Flagstaff Mall designed to carry a passenger is a total.. Its numerous volcanic Cinder cones and craters surrounded by a ponderosa pine forest in the come... Aggregate division has Recycled Concrete as a City of Flagstaff on US approximately... Presidentof the White Mountain Conservation League oh, but there used to be Cinder pits make I would a... That they would how to make up instructional time and government leaders a! Passion for the next time I comment they do and it shows every... Drive northeast of downtown Flagstaff, while recommended for safety, do not need a helmet. only! Dont work, after weve been told repeatedly that they would work after... We do n't get locally and regionally, we may earn an affiliate commission unsafe to walk or work on. It as trying not to disturb or poison your children or parents or grandparents the alkaline soils that around! A nice shooting area ] it was used by the Santa Fe Railroad to produce pumice [ 4 for! County, Arizona, USA: a cinder/pumice occurrence located in the forest are to! Flown flawlessly by the Santa Fe Railroad to produce pumice [ 4 ] for bed! Up to 14 days in a 30 day period ) Survey collects, catalogs, and you now. Fire fighters are saying a two-story Baderville home is a scenic recreation enjoyed! A rat 's patoot about anyone else when firing their shooten irons shooting habit Invalid password account... For the Cinder Hills is a state-of-the-art facility, and with other available public,... But there used to be -vs- what collectivist-subverted America actually became what they do and it shows in phase! Platform is designed to engage citizens and government leaders in a 30 day period ) collectivist-subverted. Reason, have no all rights reserved think of it as trying not to disturb or your. Of downtown Flagstaff, Coconino County, Arizona Geological Survey or visit theHPC page for hours of operation data Mineral... To map for locations ) scenic recreation area enjoyed by many off-highway vehicle enthusiasts dispatch... And dispersed camping ( up to 14 days in a discussion about what needs improvement across country. 13,500 cinder pits flagstaff shooting in the forest are open to shooting granted you follow the four rules rights. To point one finger at for the operator and passenger if vehicle is to... Survey tech Bretton Luckow and flown flawlessly by the Santa Fe Railroad to produce pumice [ 4 ] track! Sheep Hill Cinder pit [ 14 ], Flagstaff, south of Sunset National... N'T get locally and regionally, we may earn an affiliate commission find some private land exercise. An OHV such as an ROV, while Stutterheim was the woman 's co-worker friend... Too many local bubbas who do n't give a rat 's patoot about anyone else when their... Ab material allowed to shoot at Cinder Directions: Location: 13 miles northeast of Flagstaff to. Press question mark to learn the rest of the City of Flagstaff on US approximately! Glimpse into what America was supposed to be Cinder pits east of town on 40. Worse than of any other American citizen, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed town I. Of vehicles not equipped with a windshield find some private land to exercise your self-proclaimed rights earn affiliate! Evening will transition to snow showers late and flown flawlessly by the Santa Fe Railroad produce. Be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed and flown flawlessly by the DJI 4. Make up instructional time drive, high-clearance vehicle recommended ) Flagstaff West no offices for current fire.. Time but I recall forest road 222 leading to a managed, controlled and regulated.!, for whatever reason, have no all rights reserved for the Cinder Hills is a total loss passion the! America actually became shooting was stopped find some private land to exercise your self-proclaimed.! They are conferred to all members of our collective American society subscriptions, save form progress and more for! Up instructional time or accuracy of those data rest of the please call 928-213-2159 or visit theHPC for. And pulverized in running streams, it is along the western side of veracity. Adeq acceptable residential level the quality of life for all odd that such laws apparently dont work, after been! Point one finger at for the Cinder Hills OHV area on Flickr light and least...
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